The Americanists say, those wise in the history of the continent, that only knowing well Latin America is known and understand Spain. It was also thought of Don Mario Hernández Sánchez-Barba, one of the most prestigious and enjoyable specialists of academic Americanism. He many times visited the Dominican Republic, where he gave conferences and made many friends. One of them, the engineer Pedro Delgado Malagónwho is known both for his civil profession and for his intellectual production.
No one talks and writes like him about popular culture, art, history, literature, gastronomy, music … no one like him to reflect on the current relationships between Latin America and Spain.
(A fact: Dr. Delgado, to whom one of the emblematic streets of the DN was dedicated was the brother of his great-great grandfather. “He was called the same as me, Pedro Delgado, but Delgado Sánchez-Prieto, with a fused surname.”)
“I think anti-Spanish was an dishonorable exit for the American fate.”
–Recently you published Spain everlasting, an article dedicated to Don Mario …
He was a great Americanist, very interested in the process of Creole, of the of mixed race. He investigated a lot. A few years ago, at the Academy of History, we maintained a conversation recreating the controversy of the 50s between Américo Lugo and Sánchez Albornoz.
–What is your particular opinion of relations between Spain and Latin America?
Very difficult, Spain Right now … because the populism in Spain It surprises me. I don’t like Sánchez. It is very different from Felipe González, who was one of the most helped to maintain a good relationship. He was closely linked to the democratic governments of America, Peña Gómez, to the people of the democratic left of the time.
–You have said of the “democratic” left …
What happens is that we are now confusing the democratic left with madness. He is already a populist left looking for whatever is to survive. To me, Pedro Sánchez seems to me an absolutely unnecessary guy.
“Reading and writing is what the man of the animal genre divides.”
–How do you see the influence that Dominican Republic can have in Latin America and the Caribbean?
It is relatively important. First because we are one of the most stable countries in the region. Stable politically and economically and because there is social peace. It is an economy that is growing a lot. Here the left does not exist, the ideology has been diluted here. The country has achieved a political, social model, in which relatively people feel satisfied. There is still a lot of poverty and above all much ignorance. I believe that any effort to make, any government that comes, must make the maximum possible emphasis on the education. It has not earned 4 %.
–What can be improved in the relations of the Dominican Republic with Spain today?
Our relationship with Spain It is more than anything visceral. I do not think we have to do much more … relationships are narrow, for example 80 % of tourist investments are handled by Spanish entrepreneurs practically.
–What opinion deserve campaigns such as the president of Mexico against Spain?
Mexico … When the Spaniards, the Mexicans or the Aztecs arrive, it is the same group, they had dominated all the tribes that surrounded them. What do Cortés do? He praises with the tribes and defeats the Mexicans, who were anthropophagous. They took your heart on a pyre with a stone knife and ate it. What does it do is free the Indians of Mexico, the Toltecs, the Chichimecas … There were many groups. Cortés, the Spanish, what he does is free the majority of the Indians subjected by the Aztecs and free them from this martyrdom.
–It is a very complex country.
Mexico is a very difficult country, very complicated. I was very close to Fernando Benítez, (who was an ambassador here) an important journalist in love with the indigenous world. On Friday afternoon it was mounted on a plane and for 3 years he toured the indigenous world of Mexico. He made an extraordinary inventory, a book of 3 or 4 volumes. He was the one who rescued the indigenous world of Mexico, which made it known.
Mexico is the mysterious scenario that Octavio Paz uses to define one of the areas of hell. Octavio Paz was the one who truly understood it, the labyrinth of loneliness. That Mexico that does not communicate with each other. Mexico are many levels, many stadiums that have no relationship. Mexico has no civil unit, human unity. Mexico is a fragmented country.
–Is there an antispañolism in some governments of the?
In America, an anti-Spanishism was unleashed at that time and then with Bolívar, who was grandson of Spanish and Francisco de Miranda and José de San Martín, both children of Spaniards … The little game was to fight with Spain. But the Spaniards were the only ones who married Indies and had children. The son of Hernán Cortés and Doña Marina, La Malinche, was a friend of Felipe II being adolescents both. The Spaniards mixed with the natives, there were of mixed race. That did not do the Dutch, neither the English nor the French. I believe that the treatment they have given to Spain Many of our American heroes.
“We have 50, 60 % of people to whom the progress car is dragging, but like a dead weight.”
–American independence made them Spanish against Spain …
Of course, the process of independence is given and after two or three centuries of the discovery. It seems to me that anti-Spanish was an dishonorable exit for the American destiny. Has been dissipating and already Spain Again he has once again occupied the place he deserved. There was never that same aversion here.
–Maybe because it was a small country?
Perhaps because the population was small and here were Spanish, the Indians had disappeared. And what we had was adversaries … our enemy was not SpainIt was Haiti, obviously.
–What do you think of the meeting party (with Spain) that has emerged in Puerto Rico?
It is nonsense. We are one Spain Stroy, that’s the reality. I sympathize extraordinarily with the historical Spanish point of view. But in Spain There are also many zoquetes saying nonsense. The Basques are there because they can’t go to another place. No one understands the Basque! They don’t want to be French, they don’t want to be Spanish.
–Basque and Catalan independentistas will soon meet the demography wall.
Yes. And there the game was over. Catalan independence does have no explanation. Now they are no longer the most liberal region, nor the most advanced, nor the most modern, nor the richest of Spain. Spain Right now is something else about what was at the beginning of the 20th century. The same civil war was a complication. But it was other days, it was a nation of a fourth world. He had a century of backward!
“Dominican political parties are made to the nineteenth century. But all America is the same.”
–The generation of 98 already felt pessimistic …
I think that is the watershed. It is the generation that first questions what is Spain. Then many ideas arise and Ortega in a moment says “My God, what is Spain?“That indicates the level of fright, which did not know where to leave. They entered a maze and did not know where the exit door was. I think that Spain Already with the proximity with Europe it has progressed a lot. It is a first world nation with an important industrial development.
–How do you see today to the Dominican Republic?
I think it’s going well. We have to make efforts to educate the population. It is very good to make schools, very well to make training campus for many things. But first we have to do is teach to read and write to people. That is the starting point of any educational system. Reading and writing is what the man of the animal genre divides.
–And we have not achieved it …
No, we have not achieved it. I don’t know … but as the guardian does not look for a minister of Education to serve. Here are human resources, but they don’t want to work in politics.
–What was your experience of passing through politics?
Well, I wasn’t from the game, I never went from any game. Well … of the Dominican party because you had to register when you turned 16, right? To me who takes me to that is Hatuey de Camps. I was very close to him, he was a guy who had talent. He had a complicated character but he always got along. He is the one who invites me to integrate the Jorge Blanco support group, whom I did not know. Then I treated him a lot and he treated me very well, he and his family, Mrs. Asela and Pablo Orlando and Dilia Letizia.
And I had a great time. I did not get into policy issues, mine was engineering and made many roads, airports … I did my job. When I left there I went back to the usual.
–Do you see in the current parties the ability to boost the development that is still missing?
But it is that political parties are made to the nineteenth century. Even here if you ride any of the political leaders and put a bicorn you can say … “But that one goes around is Lilís!” The mentality is the same.
–Caciques de Pueblo?
Yes, yes. We have not made the leap, but all America is the same. Look Venezuela, Colombia, in Argentina this Milei crazy has appeared, which seems to me a breath of fresh air.
“The country has achieved a political and social model in which relatively people feel satisfied.”
–What is missing for the country to advance?
I think we have a dead weight; The economy has developed but extrinsic factors have intervened, such as tourism That has created a lot of employment, an economic movement that drags food production, develops infrastructure works … there has been a material impulse, but the human development of the population has not received the benefits that could have expected from tourism.
–Does that lead us to the issue of education?
Yes, I think we have to educate the population. We definitely have 30-40 % of the population that is the one who participates in the entire movement and economic growth. But there are 50-60 % of the people to which the car of progress is dragging, but like a dead weight.
– Has it always been like this or at some point was there a possibility of including everyone?
At another time the dead weight was greater, but it was also a smaller population. Now we are 10 million, 11 million. I think when we were 4 million … but I am 81 years old.
–What would be your candidate for culture?
My candidate, Frank Moya Pons. Or Pedro Vergés again. Frank is very organized, very systematic, with a very well oriented mind. And I wasn’t going to swallow anyone’s stories. Frank has also been a teacher, Frank has the teaching experience, he has the cultural background. If you publish that will call me … “Have you gone crazy?”
