Beyond the political attack, that they have taken it out of the relationship of presidents of Congress in a recent ceremony, this of inaugurating plates with pomp and protocol in the Legislative Palace, isn’t a huachafería a bit?
I believe that in recent years we have seen how politics has been degraded and reduced to quite insignificant, superfluous expressions. We see how we governed ourselves more for symbolic reasons than for what politicians really can do. The political class thinks that hanging this kind of plates or these recognitions will achieve legitimacy among the population, but I believe that the population at this point perfectly understands that these acts are nothing more than part of political vanity. It seems to me that they are things that have to be analyzed, because, look, in relation to how Congress works, all acts and symbols that are still maintained there, raise a need for reform, not only of the political class, but of institutionality as such, of political expressions.
And you were ever in a similar act in the time that was president of Congress?
Actually, I had to deal a lot with that, because we have a Parliament that actually looks a lot at those symbolic facts, of recognition, that they feel they are important, that have to do with how they look at them in relation to society. All the time had applications from parliamentarians who wanted me to send them to make plates because they were simply part of a commission. I remember a lot about the fight with the Bicentennial commission, which wanted a specific plaque where they put their names. And I also fought a lot because they didn’t want any plaque, they wanted a plaque that was quite expensive. There was an argument to the point that, as they did not want any plaque, we arrived at a negotiation in which Congress.
There were work tables on the plates.
(He laughs) It was not a table specifically, but it was like spaces where they came at every moment to discuss that issue. And we arrive at a negotiation in which I said, look, Congress can only cover this amount, which was a basic plate, but if you want a much more elegant plaque, you can put from your own resources. As I have thousands of examples, because they were not only the plates, they wanted us to send busts in the name of people who considered important.
The kingdom of superficiality.
Yes, we are a parliament that still has a tradition with aristocratic symbols.
Now, his passage through the presidency of Congress was unusual, because you did not know the Legislative Palace. At that time the sessions were virtual, by the pandemic.
Yes, to Parliament the common and currents congressmen as I did not attend, because they prohibited us from the pandemic, and only the spokesmen went. So I just sworn, the next day I went to my house to meet and I didn’t know my own office. Then the whole moment of the political situation of confrontation for the issue of Merino comes, without ever planning it. And he ended up being president of Congress, and I did not even know the office of the presidency of Congress, he barely knew the hemicycle and lost me a little throughout the Parliament building.
Why would you say that you hate it so much in this Congress?
I think there are up to three specific things. The first has to do with the rematch they have, not only against me, but against the entire board of directors that he assumed at that time, because we were chosen with the people’s own votes who were opposed to us, and they do it because they are forced by popular pressure. We come to replace a regime that people described as coup. With me they were particularly aggressive since the zero minute because they felt they were removed from space. In fact, Merino never transferred me. The second has to do …
Already with your management.
Yes, but also that I am not a career policy, I am an unknown, and then I try to do things a little following my common sense and listening a lot to people out there. And doing different things in Congress is a tremendous challenge, it is to challenge a whole structure that is already installed. For example, I start thinking and say: How do you assemble the agendas to take the projects to the plenary? And there is always a tradition: o The agenda was armed by the president, depending on the power he had, or was made with agreements and compounds among the spokesmen with more power. And I say: so it is not again, we must have an agenda of the plenary that reflects the plurality and here we all have the right to put our projects. And we invent a formula with my older officer. It was challenging for them. They wanted to continue with the previous model. And I told them that the regulation allowed the president of the Board of Directors to build something new. And they didn’t expect that attitude. I have the hypothesis that they chose me because they saw me as a seemingly weak, woman, little person.
They thought it was manipulable.
Exact. A colleague told me: hey, don’t get together with Rocío Silva Santisteban. And they said it because they thought Rocío was going to govern behind me. And I told them, but why? Why do you think about me, that I am going to let myself be manipulated by someone? And I think the third point was that that exchange did not work. They said: Give us such a thing and vote in favor of this, give us so many jobs. It was impressive, each bench arrived with his list. And I started saying no, and that brought me a lot of problems.
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And that this week they have tried to invisible their management in the presidency of Congress is not contradictory? Because they have also tried to disable her for what she did as president. That is, for complaints he was president, but for the plates not.
Yes, they make me visible when they have to accuse me, but when they have to recognize that I have been part of the Congress, which I have been part of the history of that congress, they do not. In the background is that, the invisibility for them is a form of revenge. And it seems to me, as always, a clumsy action. I have laughed a lot because they have thought that not putting myself on the plate, my passage was forgotten there, but, on the contrary, that day there was much talk about my management and the way I worked.
Now, this Congress has acted emboldened in recent years, has taken pro crime laws, has done what he wanted with the budget, despite the warnings of the MEF, and has taken from the electoral career to which they consider their enemies. However, in the face of the topic of the AFPs for the first time they have been in need of backing, what do you attribute it?
I am clear that this reversal on the issue of AFPS is for two things. One because we are in electoral times and they are already quite discredited and quite beaten by citizens and it is not convenient to follow in that weak situation. But, in addition, I think the issue of street pressure continues to work. Politicians, however indifferent and cynical that they are, when there is an important mobilization and serious take it into account. And in this case it has been good symptomatic that they are young self -organized those who go out to the streets have been afraid, why? Because they know that spontaneous protests have the possibility of growing, of strengthening, of being very strong, because they are very genuine. Sometimes protests are organized, guilds for example organize protests, but Congress minimizes them because they have identified who they are, they can threaten them, co -opt, they can do a series of actions, but what do young people who self -organize
In addition, the call for these last protests has come from little known, current channels, such as the Kick platform,
Of course, they know that at this moment there are no strong political voices and leaders, but that they can replace that political leadership, young people who now have a role, a very important actorry and that mobilize a lot. It is these young Tiktokers, influencers, who have a lot of ancestry in the youngest population and have the potential to mobilize as would mobilize a great social leader.
Now another reading is that, especially Mrs. Keiko Fujimori, has been afraid that they put the plate of the AFP candidate, and that is why they have reversed.
Yes, I think that also hits because it has to do with the electoral stage. Not only is the fear of losing their flow or legitimacy in electoral times, but how they will label them in the elections, how they lose the vote, and that depends on the label. And Keiko can be tagged by the AFP candidate, opposition people can build a clear discourse against Fujimorismo very easily at this time for all this he is doing.
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You have once said that during your passage through the PCM you had a respectful but distant relationship with President Castillo, because they did not think the same, which contrasted with the president’s relationship with Mrs. Boluarte, who was very confident. Even the president asked him to consult some decisions with Mrs. Boluarte.
That is absolutely real. I have always said that my relationship with the president was respectful, but I feel that he had no total confidence in me, because he was very advised, I had many people around him, I made decisions with them and it was not the most indicated people, many of them even had a history of corruption and that was generating a clash with my positions. And yes, many times he said: “You have to consult Dr. Dina”, for some issues. He had a very close relationship with Dina. Dina was a person who caught my attention for that a bit exaggerated action with the president. He arrived, hugged him, they hugged them both.
You say it called him teacher.
Yes, I said a teacher, he laughed a lot with him, they talked about personal things. Well, she was very exaggerated in showing her that she was a loyal person to him
How far are those days.
Yes. The DINA of now is absolutely another. The Dina of now is a false figure in every way.
