Marianella Ledesma: “Automatic rehabilitation is a fiction” [VIDEO]

The former president of the Constitutional Court Marianella Ledesma Narváez was in Peru21TV Last friday. She confirms that she is close to deciding whether to enter political life or stay in the academic world. She has a clear position on the social crisis. She also rejects the latest rulings that the TC has published and that have generated controversy and concern among the public.

Is it true that you have been asked to represent the Purple Party in the upcoming elections?

The president of the Purple Party and the general secretary talked with me about joining the party. Last year I stopped being a State official after 40 years of service to my country and now I would have to analyze the possibility of doing partisan political activity in this new phase of my life.

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In this analysis that you have been doing, how do you currently view the country?

We have a country with a non-inclusive model. We see a country very divided between marginal and rural Peru versus another country in the city because the closing of the gaps has not materialized; rather, those gaps have intensified. A second reflection is the lack of social affection on the part of political leaders. I am moved to see the aggressions of the State against the demonstrators and I am also concerned that the police are injured, beaten. We have an aggression between the population and the police apparatus that causes the State to experience a situation of chaos and that generates an impact on people’s lives.

How do we get to the light at the end of the tunnel?

I will always aspire for that exit to be through democratic channels. We should defend the democratic model, and this not only starts by electing our representatives, but also demands from the representatives that, when we are in a situation of social tension, the mechanisms that the Constitution itself includes are used to unravel this crisis. There is the possibility not only of early elections, but also of invoking a resignation and raising the vacancy. This, so that tranquility and social order can be restored.

President Boluarte leads a round of dialogue with political parties and says that she will also meet with social organizations. Is that a way out?

I will always be in favor of dialogue, communication and participation, but it is also true that you have to know who you are going to talk to. In this situation it is vital to talk with those who are raising these theses linked to social claims and protests. It (the government) should start building bridges with this protesting group in order to make this dialogue more fruitful. It should be discussed with the groups that are in an opposite position to see what issues can be rescued or harmoniously find a solution.

How to dialogue with people who do not want to show their faces and hide behind violence?

This situation does not occur overnight. It has been escalating, typical of the dynamics of the conflict. The response given by the government has not been ideal. Faced with such a strong reprisal response that ended in murders in Ayacucho and Puno, now there must be a gesture from the party that has managed the intervention of the Armed Forces. There must be a gesture to say, at least, that we are going to get closer to something to enable dialogue. This is so that the sector that feels overwhelmed, harassed, affected, feels that in something some point of agreement can be redirected.

the resignation of Dina Boluarte is that gesture?

Boluarte’s resignation would be a major situation. I would make Mr. Otárola’s position available. He was Minister of Defense when the murder of residents in Ayacucho took place. Later, when he was premier, people were murdered in Puno. A more concerted minister should be put in with the group that is protesting.

And what gesture should there be in Congress?

The Congress of the Republic has to fulfill the constitutional role that corresponds to it. Currently, Boluarte as president of the country has exercised a constitutional attribution such as the state of emergency. But it is also true that this prerogative has to be made visible and controlled by Congress. The Legislature, seeing that there is a misuse of force with the protesters, has been able to request the censorship of a minister, but they are in deathly silence. It is up to Congress to control how Boluarte exercises power. Above all things, the lives of people in general must be protected, not just the protesters; I’m also talking about the police. There is no political control from Congress to the Executive.

For what date would the next general elections be ideal?

Elections must be based on a social need. We are in an abnormal situation that is occurring in these social claims. Ideally, using the democratic method, there are pacts or political negotiations that lead to speeding up a new election with other actors and other conditions to unravel this critical situation.

But when we see the menu, we will see the same as before. How can we have a new menu?

The great protagonists are going to be the political parties, but speaking in their real dimension: where there is an ideology, an ideology, an organization and a faith in those ideas to preserve the well-being of citizens. The logic of a State and the formation of a republic are designed with that message: the common good. I find few matches, I find appearances. The political party must be the link between the voice of the citizens and a representation of their voice that must be expressed in Congress.

A resolution of the Constitutional Court at the end of last year agrees with those sentenced for terrorism so that they can participate in the next elections. What is your position?

I do not share the decision made by the Constitutional Court to allow those sentenced for terrorism, drug trafficking, corruption and sexual violators to participate in a popular election. I’m not saying today. In December 2020 we passed a law that said that the corrupt could not run for public office again. Although each person has the right to choose and be elected, this political right is not absolute, it is conditioned by what the legislator indicates for that exercise. It is a right of legal configuration. Article 31 of the Constitution says: “Every person has the right to elect and be elected in accordance with the organic law of elections.” The Court already said it for the issue of teachers, a person convicted of these crimes cannot return to the classroom to teach. It is perfectly constitutional to restrict the right to participate in elections to people who have had these types of convictions, and we should all be blunt. Political participation does not end with the election. Nobody restricts them from being militants. Beyond the interest of these sentenced, is the interest of society.

The TC talks about rehabilitation. Can a former terrorist command be rehabilitated?

The law says that when you finish your sentence, you are automatically rehabilitated, and that is a fiction. Rehabilitation has to be noticed after a while. I’d say double the worth to see how it pans out. There is no room for automatic rehabilitation here, it must be verified.

Comrade ‘Cusi’, a former member of Sendero Luminoso, goes to pretrial detention for leading the violence in Ayacucho. Why did Sendero infiltrate the protests?

I don’t know if Sendero has infiltrated, I don’t know. But I do know that in a social protest there are people who infiltrate to make the protest more prone. Groups from the extreme left or the extreme right can be infiltrated with different objectives. That is a risk there is. I start to think about why the protest is so intense; This happens because there are no parties or communication channels in the country that make the claim viable.

Another controversial sentence of the TC is the one that the Sunat has rejected because it affects the collection after the companies that have unpaid debts and interest were found to be right.

When you have a debt, you always pay interest, and when credit runs out, interest is generated. The Tax Court in 12 months has to resolve any claim, but, as years and years go by, the TC has said that this time that has passed is not charged. What is pathological in this story is that companies have always been seeking not to pay their obligations and not pay interest. When I was in the TC, we resolved case by case, but this TC has gone further and has said that from now on no debtor company is going to pay interest beyond the legal term. He has even said that this is with retroactive effect. It is ominous. A company that meets its obligations now receives the message not to comply, to delay, because in the end it will only pay one year of legal interest. The TC intends to restrict collection with this precedent.

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If you were to become a candidate or even become President, what is the first thing you would do to transform the country?

It is a matter of hypothesis, but I am not going to rush to the question.

Forward.

We have to end the political crisis. We have to open the stage and become a more inclusive, inclusive country. We necessarily have to talk about rewriting the 1993 Constitution through an assembly, conclave or whatever you want to call it. The 1993 Constitution, which has been good in many aspects, needs to be updated to the current situation. And, third, it is necessary to have management capacity in basic ideas: education, health, security and agriculture to guarantee a minimum well-being to citizens in the context in which we live.

KEEP IN MIND

• Lawyer Ledesma is a tenured professor at the Pontificia Universidad Católica and at the Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos.
• She held the position of president of the Constitutional Court between 2020 and 2021, and was the first woman to preside over it.
• She was born in May 1963 in the city of Trujillo and is the daughter of the historic left-wing leader Genaro Ledesma Izquieta.
• Before the interview, Ledesma revealed that other parties have approached him, but there have been no formal proposals.