–What destiny is being drawn for the PDG? -It seems to me that the People’s Party is going to suffer the same fate as the People’s List. It has already entered an acute crisis, they have no ideology, only a way of doing things that is common.
–Why do you think that putting hope in new parties, which appear and die quickly, has only served to increase people’s disappointment with politics?
-When people put their hopes in the news, in the People’s List, in the People’s Party and these groups end up as the People’s List did, it seems to me that the natural thing is that there is disappointment. They thought that the new parties came to renew politics and turned out to be worse than the others.
–Specifically, what consequence does the fragmentation of parties have on the processing of laws and the fulfillment of the government program?
-Makes it more difficult. It was a little less so in governments of the right, which has a little less fragmentation. Today it is noticeable and in legislative work it is sharp. With 20 games it is very difficult to negotiate. It is impossible for a government to discuss a project with each parliamentarian, it needs to do it with blocks, at least that was what I knew as undersecretary. These blocs do not exist today or are very small, even when negotiating with a bloc there is no certainty as to how many parliamentarians are going to drop the agreement reached by the government on a specific issue.
-Should we review the electoral system?
-We will have no choice but to open the engine and adjust it. If not, the car will continue to fail.
–In the citizen preference for conventional voting, the PDG has come out as the first option, then Chile Vamos and then the Republican Party. The independents and Amarillos have emerged with a higher percentage of support than that obtained by the ruling parties or the DC. What explains this emergence of new parties?
-What happens is that there is a very great erosion of the old political parties. That is typical of crises, and crises are overcome with the generation of new collectivities. For example, Republicans seem to me to be a party that is too extreme to become a majority. Now, it could happen that this government is so worn out that Republicans have a minute of glory. But I can’t imagine transforming into a party that gives the country political stability for a while. I do not see in the diversity of political parties, collectivities that can become a majority. Nor do I see the workmanship (capacity) of the new parties. The center is going to recover its electorate, but if Amarillos, Democrats appears, the one probably formed by mayors such as Claudio Orrego —regional governor in the Metropolitana— and Patricio Vallespín —regional governor in Los Lagos—, there is also that of Andrés Velasco and with that fragmentation we are going to repeat the film. The center will resurface, but with five games. For that to mature and become a single party, I think it takes time.
-You have stated that the number of independents makes the government’s negotiation process with Congress even more difficult…
-The parties are interested in bringing independents, and the independents are interested in being supported by the party lists, otherwise they won’t come out, but at the same time they are interested in remaining independent. Or even what has been seen a lot lately is to leave as a militant and shortly after being elected to drop. There are 37 independents, which makes it practically impossible to come to terms with Congress. The problem is not that the Government does not understand itself with the Congress, but that there is less efficiency in the production of the laws that the people need because the necessary agreements are not reached.
–He has said that there is a decline in ideological projects and lack of identity of the electorate with any political tendency. Do the new parties, like the Yellows and the Democrats, offer a clear ideological project?
-We’ll see. In general, ideological projects have disappeared in the world, not only in Chile. The idea of a worldview of a party with principles that encompass all aspects of social and economic life is a declining issue, lost culturally.
– Probably one of the only initiatives that sought to deal with the fragmentation in Congress was the one presented by former conventionalist Felipe Harboe, who proposed that the candidate must have obtained the absolute majority of his district (50% + ONE) to be elected. Do you think this is the solution?
-I find what Felipe Harboe proposed very attractive because he raised the point that seems essential to address. However, I consider it very difficult for us to go to a binomial system. In Chile there are at least six or seven currents of opinion that are difficult to dissolve. There is the Communist Party, the Socialist, a new left that is in government, and a center and two or three rights. Suppressing that artificially I think would be a mistake. What you have to try to do is think of a system that includes five or six parties, that are not more than those, that strengthens them.
-What solutions can be implemented?
-Review the electoral system, particularly to avoid “dragged” parliamentarians, with little voting and representation; minimum threshold of elected or voting deputies to have representation in the Chamber; loss of office of the parliamentarian who resigns from the party; restrictions on independent candidates; better regulate match orders; decrease in state contributions to parties in whose internal elections a minimum percentage of militants do not vote, and other similar ones.
-What is the meaning of the loss of office when a parliamentarian resigns from the party?
-I think it’s essential. It is true that people vote for people and for parties, and perhaps more for people. But as we allow the parliamentarian to leave his party, we make political negotiation very difficult, and therefore the production of laws. Re-election is always in the interest of the parliamentarian, and it is natural that it should be so, the question is whether he is going to be disciplined in some way, or is he going to be allowed to play freely. If he does not discipline himself we will not produce laws, we have been discussing pensions and other projects for a long time that simply do not come out.
