The Colorado deputy Gustavo Zubía is a regular user of social networks. One of his last comments was about the extreme measures implemented by the president of El Salvador, Nayib Bukele, to combat crime. Decisions that, for the legislator, are disturbing: the reduction of constitutional guarantees to combat gang violence. Zubía wondered if, in Uruguay, it would not be time to plan more reforms a frontal fight against crime “if we do not want to reach those extremes.” His reflection was the trigger for a talk with The Observer in which the deputy marked certain “mortal sins” that the government is committing and that he complained about the lack of coordination that continues to exist in the coalition.
Why did you mention the case of Bukele in El Salvador?
Because it is outrageous, but I fear that, if no action is taken, we are going down the same path. Layera (former National Police Director) had already predicted it. We are working positively, we have improved the figures, but many gaps remain in the fight against drug trafficking and crime. Thus, the feeling of impotence in the face of crime will continue to grow more and more. There is a feeling of terrible fever. We are with 26 thousand predators, and in 2007 we had about 8 thousand. With Bukele I wanted to reflect that countries, when they reach extreme situations, undertake extreme reforms. Bukele takes measures to counteract as best he can a crime that is eating the liver of his country. Measures that unfortunately curtail individual rights. Let’s not even run that risk. The delinquency epidemic that we are experiencing is not faced with palliatives. In Uruguay we must mature. As for crime, we are a teenage country. We suppose that the delinquent is rehabilitated, we speak to him as a colleague, we try to convince him. We guess wrong. It may be that 10% will be rehabilitated.
What is the main “gap” that, understand, there is today?
The government’s policy in relation to the Attorney General’s Office. Dr. (Jorge) Diaz, rightly or wrongly, was a worthy profile related to the government of the Broad Front, and he drew a line. But we changed the government, and we keep a government prosecutor who is not in line with the coalition. The coalition won the elections largely because of security, and when we changed horses, we stayed on the same mount. The attorney general is the real person responsible for the criminal prosecution.
But there is no agreement to appoint a new prosecutor…
I gave the solution: a triumvirate.
What prospects for a solution are there in the short term?
Unfortunately, the thinking today is that we leave that issue aside and that the president is not interested in dealing with it now. What I am seeing is that we are advancing in a fight against crime without any important legal reference. With all due respect to Dr. (Juan) Gómez, it is the continuation of the previous system. In addition, there is another very serious problem: when receiving a complaint, the prosecutor’s offices do not apply a random system. The prosecutor is determined by an office that, hierarchically, reports to the Attorney General’s Office. Another deadly sin.
Are the gaps you speak of also referring to the Ministry of the Interior?
There are serious problems in the police stations, which are the visible face of the Police. It’s your presentation. And the police stations do not have an efficient treatment with the neighbors, since there are no referents that the neighbor knows. Lack of staff and lack of attitude.
Do you support Heber’s management?
Like everything in the coalition. I support a number of things and am critical of others. The same thing happens to me as when I was a prosecutor: at first I supported Díaz, until I stopped supporting him. We are committing mortal sins. And he didn’t just say it for Heber, but also for the president. And not appointing an attorney general is a mortal sin.
That depends more than anything on political agreements in Parliament…
No. The negotiations are between four heads. And I know that the opposition is interested in talking.
And what would be the mortal sin of the president?
Not wanting to act directly on key points. First I would ask you to receive me, because I have requested an audience since February and you do not give it to me. The first thing I would ask of you would be: “President, listen to me, there are important issues to address.” The Ministry of the Interior must be prioritized economically, new places must be created in prisons. There are difficulties in exercising prison control. There are those who dream of rehabilitation, but there you have to exercise control and discipline. And to exercise control, the minister needs the support of the president. And for that you need to put more testicles, especially to later defend why. Because when you exercise control, you always have problems.
In what other issues would the president be failing, in your opinion?
It bothers me that the law proposed by Cabildo Abierto for mandatory house arrest for people over 65 has not yet been approved. There the government lacks sufficient energy to solve what was a misapplication of criminal law, within the framework of two plebiscites that ratified the validity of the Expiration Law. The government is finding it difficult to take positions that more directly confront the Broad Front. On the other hand, during the electoral campaign we promised retirees not to continue aggravating them with the IASS. It was an electoral promise. But we continue to aggravate them.
But the president announced that in 2023 there would be measures in this regard if the economy allows it…
The president repromised. A promise is not valid. Are you upset with the government? Partially. Why do you think Lacalle doesn’t receive it? The other day (for Thursday the 12th) he was not going to go to the meeting in Suárez y Reyes (convened to discuss the social security reform). An important leader of the National Party asked me to go, that the president was going to give messages. But I didn’t receive any. In the end, I told him: “President, I’m still waiting.”
Would that annoyance make him leave the coalition?
It’s not in my plans. But I have spoken with other deputies and they tell me that they are in the same situation. Perhaps, by temperament, I am one of those who say it out loud. They are upset because there is no coordination. We don’t get information about why you have to want to vote for a project. We do not have the dialogue that we should have with the Executive Power. Every legislator of
Do you aspire to a new term as deputy?
With both lungs. Also to generate a more concrete political current. The 39,000 votes I obtained were the ones that allowed the Colorado Party to overcome Cabildo Abierto. I doubt that those votes were the same for the party. If they didn’t vote for me, they probably would have gone to Cabildo Abierto.
Is Pedro Bordaberry the way to go?
Yes. I’m like a dog with two tails waiting for it to show up. I think it would put order in the middle of this orphanage that we are having right now.
